Clinical Examination and Physical Assessment of Hip Related Joint pain In Athletes. Frequently the complex research available suggests some minor changes during training. Department of Exercise and Sport Science University of Utah Most gymnastics coaches would agree that flexibility is an essential aspect of gymnastics training and performance. 2014 Jul 1;7(3):202-211. eCollection 2014. Glide the foot at the front, pointing your toes. Hip impingementrefers to the femur bone and pelvic bones make contact with each other at extremeranges of motion, most times causing pain andpossiblydamaging the soft tissue in between. You can download all three here below, and I will also be sure to share lots of other free resources throughout this blog post for people to use at home. Does stretching induce lasting increases in joint ROM? These stretches below are seen daily in gymnastics. With this said, lets review some basic anatomy. Many great studies have outlined how hip ligaments and labrum may get strained at very end ranges that are unprotected or repetitively subjected to high force (as seen in several gymnastics skills). Routledge: New York. Ensure you are warmed up correctly Effect of Stretch Frequency and Sex on the Rate and Gain and Rate of Loss in Muscle Flexibility During a Hamstring Stretching Program: A Randomized Single-Blind Longitudinal Study. In an effort to help people out, I have decided to for the first time take everything that I possibly know about gymnastics flexibility and put it into one mega-blog post here. Conflicting results may have to do with the types of tools used, the pressures used, the duration of treatment, and technique or instructions were given to study participants. Ive been fortunate that now after learning from many people and textbooks, I really have a good handle on the concepts that seem to work, and those that dont really tend to make a big difference in the long term. Your legs should be at a 90 angle. This is true both in training and in our medical clinic. 2010;90:438 449. ), Ankle Rockers At Wall x10 reps with 10s hold at end, Hands and Knees Wall Rocking (for straight elbow movements) . Also, aggressively pushing a gymnast down in a split or not taking the time to break down why someone is limited can also lead to serious injuries. Many gymnasts may be limited by their bony alignment, differently shaped hips, or less mobile capsule/ ligaments. Keep this position for a couple of seconds and do the same for the other arm. But, the timiing protocols for these studies were insanely more than and human does, so its likely not the main case for increases in muscle length. I dont want readers to think static stretching is bad, and that we shouldnt do it. Tissues most commonly targeted are the latissimus dorsi, teres major, and pec muscles. I agree that research is conflicting on the theoretical mechanisms and effects of soft tissue work, but it seems to be making some positive effect that supports its use. Enseki et al., Nonarthritic Hip Joint Pain: Clinical Practice Guidelines Linked to the International Classification of Functioning, Disability, and Health from Orthopaedic Section of the American Physical Therapy Association. And Im not off the hook here. 2012 May;40(2):8793. doi: 10.3810/psm.2012.05.1968. PLOS, 2012, 7(10): 1-10, Kubo K., Kanehisa H., Fukunaga, T. Effect of stretching training on the viscoelastic properties of human tendon stiffness in vivo. Gymnasts practice up to 30 hours a week and have regiments full of conditioning and exercises. Within a few days of modification, advice from a qualified medical provider, and time to heal, issues may resolve quickly. The hip is a bit opposite of this, having a deeper socket with more joint congruency. The active structures are more what people know about from gymnastics flexibility methods: muscles, tendons that attach muscles to bones, and the nervous system. Pictures 2 and 3 are showing a dynamic chest stretch over a foam roller where the shoulder blades are held down/ in while the arms slide on the floor from overhead to hip. This creates a situation where the femoral head has more access to move in larger ranges of motion, creating significantly more hip mobility in all planes. Im just saying there are many factors to consider and that there may be a more optimal approach to take. The reality of the situation is that a variety of muscles around the hip or shoulder could be the culprit. Second Edition, 2009. Forcing a split down into extreme ranges of an oversplit without a proper assessment behind it, asking a gymnast to perform over splits when they are not even close to a split on flat ground, or blindly pushing someone down just to be tough, is most definitely dangerous. This is typically why these gymnasts from a young age enjoy recreational gymnastics. Cur Rev Musculoskelet Med. (7-9, 17). It can be overwhelming if you are not familiar with it. Lastly and most importantly, this complex approach tends to create much more engagement from gymnasts, as the longer static holding of flexibility can be very prolonged and monotonous. I do not feel they working as intended to address the true problem of muscular soft tissue stiffness. You can read more about hamstring apophysitis here (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6322373/) and shoulder impingement syndromes here (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945046/). In a study by Zollner et al (17), the researchers looked more at changes in muscle tissue when chronic stretching was used in simulated animal models. Please keep in mind that application of this material is a personal choice, and in no way is the author responsible for those choices. They accurately outline that areas like muscular strength and joint control must be trained in parallel with stretching. They also outline that longer durations of stretching (say up to 2 minutes per stretch) show diminishing returns. Its important that gymnasts have their thoracic mobility screened to see if its an issue, which I can share more in-depth during the circuit sections. This can also happen withhip extendingmovements (think backleg kick or leap) as the back of the femur bone makes contact with the back and outsideof the pelvis (impingement) and then the contact acts as a fulcrum for thefemoral head toslide out the frontof the hip joint (instability). I now look back to how I coached and trained as a gymnast 10 years ago, and am blown away with all the things I was doing that were not backed by scientific support. Eccentric training and static stretching improve hamstring flexibility of high school males. Microinstability of the Shoulder in the Overhead Athlete. These issues are commonly overlooked as culprits to why a gymnast struggles in this area of gymnastics. In a research study by Ben and Harvey (9), thirty healthy adult individuals were compared to 30 people in a matched control group to see if regular hamstring stretching would. My mentors have outlined that this was a crucial part of their work in professional-level sports through the competitive season, so I have adopted it into my practice with gymnasts. It should be considered to be a skill with many pieces that must be broken down to achieve success. Elsevier. Shu B., Safran MR. Hip Instability: Anatomic and Clinical Considerations of Traumatic and Atraumatic Instability. nih.gov/pubmed/24856792, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/19497032, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29506306, http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045661, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25559637, The The Hyperflexibile Hip: Managing Hip Pain In Gymnasts and Dancers, Risk Factors for Anterior Cruciate Ligament Injury. 0, No. A Review of the Literature Part 1: Neuromuscular and Anatomic Risk, Risk Factors for Anterior Cruciate Ligament InjuryA Review of the LiteraturePart 2: Hormonal, Genetic, Cognitive Function, Previous Injury, and Extrinsic Risk Factors, Anterior cruciate ligament injury prevention training in female athletes: a systematic review of injury reduction and results of athletic performance, The Best Gymnastics Leg Conditioning For Explosive Power on Vault and Floor, Exactly How to Build Explosive Power in Gymnasts Using a Hybrid Lifting Program with Scott Willgress, 5 Ways Gymnastics Coaches Build Healthy & High Performing Gym Cultures, Luke Carson on Gymnastics Culture Change, Handling Disappointment, and The Olympics/Worlds, 5 In Season Pitfalls for Gymnastics Coaches to Avoid, SHIFTs 200th Episode! Although I highly encourage people to review it and read the evidence for themselves, their thoughts follow in line with the ideas noted above related to changes in sensation or tolerance of stretching, rather than true muscle tissue changes. In general, these structures can be lumped into the categories of passive or active, with research outlining this more specifically for the shoulder (1-5) and the hip (5-12). I find many gymnasts who have shoulder injuries or are struggling with flexibility display significant strength deficits within their upper back and scapular area. Assisted hamstring stretch. This is a central concept to the work my mentors Mike Reinold and Lenny Macrina teach their patients about, due to how much it changes their mobility. Also, you must remember that immediately following the warm-up genetically go to an event has very high forces. They also represent layer two of the shoulder joint. The Hyperflexible Hip Managing Hip Pain in the Dancer and Gymnast. 2006 Nov;20(4):804-10. The Theraband strips should be black in color or they should be among the stiffest of the elastic material you can obtain. Using proper movement assessments, understanding the anatomy, and a consistency over intensity mindset is what will reduce injury risk and increase gymnastics performance. Beam, Parallel Bar, High Bar Technique Drills Involving Splits Self-soft tissue work refers to using foam rollers, lacrosse balls, tennis balls, or other implements to help massage different muscular areas of the body. Glutes, Deep Hip Rotators, Core, etc. A rolled ankle happens when the gymnast catches their foot into a down and in position (plantar flexion with inversion) leading to the structures on the outside portion of the foot being damaged. Static stretching, dynamic stretching, active flexibility, and PNF stretching (proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation) are a few popular methods. Ehmke, R. S. (2006). J Orthop Sports Phys Ther 25(6):36479, 1997. Kalichman L1, Ben David C2. 30-60 seconds per targeted muscle group, no more than 5/10 discomfort level. Plan Similar to the study above, it was found that while ankle range of motion did improve, there were no significant changes in the muscle extensibility outcomes that would indicate tissue change. We must educate ourselves on what components go into a full handstand or split positions, then be able to reverse engineer why a gymnast is struggling. This can happen statically for a period of time (static stretching), with the use of momentum and holding of end range (dynamic or active stretching), or sometimes with muscle contractions and stretching together (PNF or proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation). We are not aiming to ramp the body up for a training session or work hard to gain flexibility and train skills. Phys Sportsmed. (36-38). This end range compression and increase in capsular laxity over time may predispose shoulder instability, subacromial impingement of the rotator cuff or biceps tendon, and labral damage. It was also outlined that total time spent stretching per week was more important than total time spent stretching per session. Also, think how they apply to the gymnasts skill profile. If someone is continuing to struggle with hip mobility, rather than just pushing more take a step back and consider this concept. These gymnasts typically dont have to work on flexibility too much to achieve full splits. Returning to the analogy of a shirt sleeve, more naturally mobile athletes (gymnasts, baseball players) usually have a baggier shirt sleeve. flexibility changes in a gymnast. J Appl Physiol, 2002, 92: 565 601. This site is oriented to my opinions and thoughts regarding the subject matter. Other researchers combat these ideas and say that effects locally in the muscle like water hydration levels, changes in the viscoelasticity of muscles, and even interesting ideas down to stem cell changes within tendinous structures may be factors. Again, without an in-depth knowledge of anatomy, injury mechanisms, and medical imaging, it is tough for someone to tell the difference between a hip flexor strain and a more severe ligament or labral tear. The research in ballet dancers made me reconsider what must happen at the hip joint go to achieve such large ranges of motion needed for oversplits. clinbiomech.2014.04.013. Many gymnasts with stiff hips could benefit from a bit less squatting and jumping, and repace those exercises with glute and hamstring work. These programs often do not have the same volume of upper back strength work such as feet elevated horizontal rows, renegade rows, band pull apart, or basic rotator cuff strengthening. In parallel to the points made above, it is not that this stretch is inherently bad or dangerous for a gymnast. Its very important that both coaches, gymnasts, and medical providers understand this research to not see negative results from these tools, or worse cause unintended damage. 2016. I would suggest that these very mobileof gymnasts need more work learning to control the motion they have both with basic movements and with complex movements that involve higher forces and fast reaction times. I have also seen what was believed to be a hip flexor strain turn into a large labral tear and career-ending injury. Due to many gymnasts having inherent hypermobility, we do not want to place excessive stress on the ligaments and joint capsules of athletes. Epub 2014 May 10. Place your hands beside your hips on either side. The hip stretch routine below is a sequence of exercises designed to help you overcome the most common restrictions so that you can start moving the way you want and need to. Arabesque - a body shape on one leg with the other leg extended behind the body Many people want to know what the best approach is, either static or dynamic, if they should be aiming to increase range of motion, what are the best drills, and so on. The main reason as mentioned above is because the stretch pain reported may be coming from a few overlapping body structures, some we should be aiming to target (muscles, fascial tissue, some tendinous) and some we should not be (bony joints, ligaments, capsules, labrums, etc.). There are a handful of topics that are regularly at the center of conversation within the sport of gymnastics. These structures and systems tend to have much more potential to change through training. There are screening tools that coaches can use to assess these issues, in addition to many great assessments that medical providers can use to break down problems. As with the shoulder, I also feel that extreme hip stretching methods from a very high surface, or when a coach is pushing aggressively on a gymnast, have no place in our sport. All of the studies that did show a change in range of motion from various techniques (static stretching, PNF type, more dynamic stretching) did not push the subjects into very extreme pain or use excessively long periods of stretching past 2 minutes. It alsomay impact their ability to control landings and tumble leading to decreased performance. strength, co-ordination, spatial awareness and the core gymnastics session. As mentioned, the important take away here is to focus on things we can change, like the muscles themselves. This can happen withhip flexing movements (think front leg high kick or leap) as the front of the femur bone makes contact with the front of the pelvis (impingement) and then the contact acts as a fulcrum for thefemoral head toslide out the back of the hip joint (instability). Place your left arm across your chest to the right side. I have worked with many athletes that tend to be stiffer, but because of their incredible natural power, they succeed early on in gymnastics. Splits in the Car. The reality of flexibility training is there will be some discomfort that is associated with it. Stretching the hamstrings typically produces discomfort in the middle of the back of the thigh, not high up in the buttocks where the hamstring attaches to an open growth plate in pre-pubescent gymnasts. Sometimes in such a high force sport, these bumps and bruises are inevitable. Sports Health: A Multidisciplinary Approach 2(2) 2010. 2007 Oct 17;(4):CD004577. The Young Injured Gymnast: A Literature Review and Discussion. Instead of just jumping to pushing down the knees of gymnast to get better lines or fix bent knees, I strongly suggest that people take time to figure out why the gymnast has bent knees to start with. However, as noted in earlier chapters their natural hypermobility can be an area of caution. Good or Bad? In addition, compared with static stretching, hold relax stretching may have a great effect on the alteration of stretch tolerance rather than decrease in muscle stiffness.. Konrad A, Gad M, Tilp M1. Elastic band kick drills, needle kicks, PNF techniques Curr Sports Med Rep. 2018 Nov; 17(11), Macdonald GZ, et al. I will dive into the physiological thoughts on this in the recovery chapter. In the long term, the increased strength of the upper back and follow up technique work will solidify the flexibility gains made. 2011. 1) increase ankle range of motion and significant difference (p > .05). They can easily perform flexibility drills, achieve tumbling or bar lines, create basic gymnastics shapes and proceed through lower-level skills. If a gymnast is known for having tight shoulders that limits their handstand and swinging skills, why are we continuing to have that athlete do a high volume of pull- ups, rope climbs, push-ups, and leg lifts? Their hypermobility, along with any underlying talent or great coaching they obtain to control this range of motion, allows them to be quite successful at an early age. If you took the time to read through everything, a major kudos to you. The Approach to the Evaluation and Surgical Treatment of Mechanical Hip Pain in the Young Patient. We take our privacy seriously and will never share your information. Considering what type of ankle work you are doing with a gymnast who has an injury history like this is important for coaches to think about. It does not look nearly as impressive of a motion, but it is very specific to the goal we are trying to achieve of affecting the active structures while minimizing excessive stress on the passive structures. I dove headfirst into the scientific literature over 2 years and starting playing around with many new methods in the gym and clinic. I will talk more specifically about oversplits below, but I feel that the lack of education around this topic is why so many people are using aggressive methods. What is likely easy for that gymnast to do in a flexibility video online is because she has unique hips. Its my opinion that other aspects to physical preparation like strength or skill training, cause more structural changes to muscle tissue due to their higher force and volume nature. we can attempt to make more progress over time. Gymnastics training itself may create a position where a gymnast acquired more hypermobility with jumping/lading forces but also the large emphasis on mobility. The most popular thought process is that we are affecting resting muscle tone, possibly increasing blood flow, perhaps changing the amount of water hydration level within the muscle or are offering a competitive neurological stimulus for muscle soreness. Examples of gymnastics skills that require dynamic flexibility are a walkover and a handspring. So often gymnastics is thought of as a kids sport, but the following activities can be great fun for the family to do together! With this concept of overuse muscular stiffness in mind, I want to pause for a critical point. Another version of an overhead stretch, pictured below, is an example of the opposite. We all must understand and apply the best available science for hip and shoulder research to avoid excessive strain being placed on the passive structures of gymnasts. That article can be found below, but before readers jump to creating only static stretching circuits based on those parameters, please read the rest of this chapter. Alongside this, there is a lot of confusion or misunderstandings about what happens when gymnasts stretch, why it helps increase range of motion, how much stretching is suggested as beneficial to improve flexibility, and how to make changes show up in skills. As far as specific flexibility circuits, those I feel are the best times to truly make positive increases in joint flexibility. 10 Minute Gymnastics Flexibility Circuits, Download SHIFT's Free Gymnastics Pre-Hab Guide, I usually start any discussion that I have with coaches or gymnasts related to flexibility on some basic anatomy. J Bodyw Mov Ther. This means the hip bone was slightly migrating out of the hip socket to reach such large ranges of motion. The majority of these articles theorize that the main reasons that stretching increases range of motion include. Although research is conflicting, self soft tissue care as is seen with foam rolling and other tools may have a role in reducing perceived soreness and increasing blood flow to muscles. They measured ankle range of motion and end range stiffness before and after these stretches. Also adding in regular soft tissue work and mobility drills would be very important. Background Anatomy and Understanding Hypermobility, Beightons Testing and Links to Capsular Laxity. Why Do Gymnasts Lose Flexibility In The First Place? If not regularly and appropriately trained, flexibility can become something that really holds an athlete back from making progress in skills or possibly contributes to elevated injury risk. The average quality of studies included in this section of the review was slightly higher than the average qualities of the studies in the review overall. This is unlike the hip joint, which due to having a deeper hip socket (remember hips are built for weight-bearing while shoulders are not) has more inherent stability with less mobility. Hold this position without touching your legs for as long as you can. 4 full hip and shoulder circuits in PDF Front splits, straddle splits, handstands and pommel horse/parallel bar flexibility Downloadable checklists to use at practice Exercise videos for every drill included Without an in-depth medical background to understand human anatomy, the risk to reward ratio of trying to stretch ligaments and joint capsules are incredibly high. When correctly applied certain stretches into this position can augment skill development. So here are some main take always to help. There is more support in the literature for the use of static and dynamic compression, but I think lighter recovery sessions of self-myofascial release, light stretching, or even light aerobic exercise are valuable tools alongside other methods. ISJPT 9(6) 2014. A possible increase in the levels of chemicals that are natural pain relievers, like enkephlin, within the body. What About Static Stretching? I feel to see a notable lasting change in the range of motion that shows up in gymnastics skills, we have to approach the entire movement system with our mobility work, and not just aim to improve the range of motion seen. While it is true that male gymnasts need extreme behind the back shoulder motion for pommel horse and pbars, I think there are much better ways to get it than being aggressive with behind the back stretch. I meet many well-intentioned gymnastics coaches and parents who are simply looking for an easy to use, but scientifically-backed flexibility program to help the gymnasts they know to increase their flexibility, reduce the risk of injury, and increase their performance. This is where the third layer comes into play, the muscular soft tissue. They often struggle quite a bit to lift their legs even against gravity alone. 2017 Apr;21(2):446-451. doi: 10.1016/j.jbmt.2016.11.006. Many medical assessments can be used to determine why a gymnasts hip, shoulder or spine may not have the range of motion needed to achieve a full handstand, split, or bridge. However, this requires very specialized medical training and must be performed by a healthcare provider who is competent. This natural selection type introduction to gymnastics presents an essential background foundational concept of flexibility training. They try videos from the internet, are disciplined about stretching at practice and at home, do active flexibility, try different medical providers, and all sorts of home remedies, only to come up short. They concluded, that both Hold Relax Stretching and Static Stretching can increase end range of motion, which may be because of the decreases in muscle stiffness and modified stretch tolerance during the stretch application. Speaking beyond the research, I truly feel that both mechanical and neurological changes occur in muscles as well as tendons with prolonged stretching. Many of them tell me that they try searching online, going to clinics or camps, and asking around at gyms about how to help, only to become significantly overwhelmed. They also are usually subject to 100s of squats, squat jumps, and leg tigthening exercises per week. If these joints are subject to ongoing stretching past their normal end ranges of motion, it can significantly increase the risk of injury. (3), For the geeks like me reading, they more specifically are subdivided into the Superior Glenohumeral Ligament, the Middle Glenohumeral Ligament, the Inferior Glenohumeral Ligament, and the Posterior Glenohumeral Ligament. A complex typically includes these steps (I will offer links to videos below), Pre Test Screen There are many reasons, and I put together this video highlighting how to look for some of the most common ones. Trying to aggressively push through that bony or ligamentous limitation will only lead to pain and headaches for all involved. Acute Effects of Stretching on Passive Properties of Human Gastrocnemius Muscle-Tendon Unit: Analysis of Differences Between Hold-Relax and Static Stretching. Simple changes to choose types of stretching exercises that bias the correct structures of the hip or shoulder may make a notable difference in long-term flexibility and injury risk. 2014 Jan; 46(1): 131-14. To really see if it is true I would need a dynamic MRI machine, a super slow motion high def camera, and someone way more technologically savvy than me (anyone want to put in donations?). This second layer of joint capsule and ligaments helps provide more stability to the joint, with different portions of the capsule limiting certain ranges of motion. This is associated with hyperextended knees and hyperextended elbows. Similar to that point, I would also be very careful about how much pressure the front knee of oversplits is taking, and if you use them try to have the gymnast move their front leg up on the mat more. Exercise selection, strength program balance, and athlete individuality also have a significant impact on limited progress in flexibility. These children are often detected through an early talent identification and are quickly put into competitive team tracks. That said, there are certainly changes in muscle stiffness, as well as the length of a muscle, again when appropriately used stretching methods are used. By using a variety of drills that include the basic movements (hip extension, shoulder flexion with rotation, etc.) There has been a large spike in the rate of hip flexor strains, groin strains , and cranky shoulders that I feel is being very much swept under the rug in gymnastics. Ben M., Harvey LA. In my mind, definitely not. Let's learn about the most common gymnastics exercises and how they help gymnasts perform! The Layer Concept, Determining the Pain Generators, Pathology, and How Structure Determines Treatment. An alternative version based on anatomy would be to flatten the spine position as well as the pelvis, and then perform a similar stretch with core/glute engagement. Eccentric pull up lowers or EZ Mover Sliders, Gymnastics skill technique drills to use the new range of motion In the most basic sense, I dont think oversplits are inherently bad for gymnasts. I think the more accurate way to describe them is that over splits may be bad for a particular gymnast at that moment in time. Stand tall with your feet hip-width apart, knees slightly bent, arms by your sides. I view the different goals fo flexibility in this light. The issue is more about, The lack of assessments being used before and after stretching, The lack of flexibility exercises that target active muscular structures (muscles and tendons) over passive structures (ligaments and joint capsules), The lack of a consistency over intensity mindset that is supported by research, and also avoids aggressive techniques that may cause injury, The lack of individuality and specificity being used based on a gymnasts individual issue, The lack of stretching being used as one small piece for the overall flexibility approach that carries changes in range of motion to actual skills, The current body of research on stretching suggests that, Changes in the nervous system are likely the main reason why stretching overtime increases range of motion (changing stretch reflex, changing perception of discomfort, desensitization of specific nerves), Changes in the muscle or tendon tissue itself also likely occur (change in number of sarcomeres, length of sarcomeres, amount of stiffness in muscle tissue). 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Achieve full splits what is likely easy for that gymnast to do in flexibility... Mentioned, the increased strength of the hip bone was slightly migrating out of the elastic material you can more... And headaches for all involved the elastic material you can be trained in parallel to the gymnasts profile... To many gymnasts may be limited by their bony alignment, differently shaped hips, less. A qualified medical provider, and how they help gymnasts perform glute and hamstring work as culprits to why gymnast! That stretching increases range of motion and end range stiffness before and after these stretches stretch... Their upper back and scapular area chapters their natural hypermobility can be overwhelming if you took the time read... In the gym and clinic ( say up to 2 minutes per stretch ) show diminishing returns your legs as... Practice up to 30 hours a week and have regiments full of conditioning and exercises place your arm. Normal end ranges of motion and end range stiffness before and after these stretches of. Where a gymnast week and have regiments full of conditioning and exercises hip socket to such..., you must remember that immediately following the warm-up genetically go to an event has high. Muscles around the hip bone was slightly migrating out of the elastic material you obtain. Much more potential to change through training can read more about hamstring apophysitis here ( https: )! Over 2 years and starting playing around with many new methods in the recovery chapter we change... 3 ):202-211. eCollection 2014 culprits to why a gymnast they also are gymnastics flexibility exercises pdf subject 100s. Hip extension, shoulder flexion with rotation, etc. circuits, those feel.